Conversations: Tom Rosenbauer, Orvis

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May 10, 2016

In this episode Daniel speaks to one of the long-time gurus of fly-fishing, Tom Rosenbauer. Tom is known for his books on fly-fishing as well as videos and podcasts he has and continues to create in his tenure at the Orvis company. Like many people in the USA, Daniel has learned much about his fly-fishing due to Rosenbauer’s work. Nowadays you can see Tom with a tenkara rod in some of his favorite waters in Vermont.
Referenced in this episode:
Tom’s podcast, The Orvis Fly Fishing Guide
The tenkara episodes in Tom’s podcast
Episode 1.
Episode 2.
Tenkara for sale at Orvis.

Transcript of Podcast Episode, Conversations: Tom Rosenbauer, Orvis

Daniel Galhardo: This is Daniel Galhardo and you’re listening to the Tenkara Cast, a podcast about the simple Japanese method of fly fishing, Tenkara. In the Tenkara Cast, we’ll be sharing information on techniques, history, philosophy and tenkara stories from anglers all over the world. This podcast is brought to you by Tenkara USA, introducing tenkara outside of Japan since 2009. It’s only possible we create content such as this podcast and videos because of your support. So we thank you so very much for purchasing Tenkara USA rods, lines and flies. I hope you enjoy learning more about this simple method of fly fishing.

DG: Well, thank you all for tuning into the Tenkara Cast again. I’m very excited to be coming back from Japan and have a speaker here who a lot of you are probably familiar with, Tom Rosenbauer. I’ve got him lined up for today’s episode, and Tom is actually somebody who I’ve been wanting to talk to for the podcast for a little time, but I found that like last times that we talked, we were talking more about chocolate making than fly fishing, it seems like. But today, we’re gonna talk about tenkara and fly fishing and Tom’s experience with tenkara. Hopefully, you’re gonna enjoy learning where he is coming from, and of course, it probably goes without saying, but Tom Rosenbauer is the guy that everybody recognizes as being associated with Orvis. He’s written tons of books on fly fishing, and he’s always just a delight to fish with. So, Tom, welcome to the Tenkara Cast. I appreciate you making the time to talk to me today.

Tom Rosenbauer: Well, thank you, Daniel. It’s my honor. You’ve been on my podcast a couple of times. The least I can do is come on yours.

DG: Yeah. No, I appreciate that, and I’m not sure why it’s taken me this long to book a little time here to talk to you because I have been wanting to talk to you about tenkara and share our conversation with our listeners. The Tenkara Cast is… It’s a podcast where I’ve talked about all ranges of topics, all kinds of things. I just usually blab a lot and… But I’ve had a couple of instances of talking to other people, and it’s always just a lot of fun. But why don’t we get to the gist of it or actually maybe let’s get a little introduction of about your fly fishing experience before we get into the tenkara. Can you just tell us a little bit of how long you’ve been fly fishing and what you do and then what you’ve been doing recently with fly fishing?

TR: Yeah, sure. It’s kind of boring, but I started fly fishing when I was a kid and I’ve been doing it for… It must be right close to… Ooh, I hate to admit this, but 50 years. I taught myself. I learned. Of course, there were no videos back in those days or the web, and I taught myself from books badly. I had one mentor that I knew of, a gentleman named Carl Coleman from Rochester, New York, where I grew up who had a little fly shop in his garage basically. And I started tying flies for him commercially, and he was of great influence on me. He taught me a lot about nymph fishing back before strike indicators were ever used. We did a lot of upstream… Straight upstream nymphing with a floating line and weighted nymphs. And anyway, I learned a lot from him. He’s a brilliant, brilliant angler. And then I had another friend from Boy Scouts who also… We kinda learned fly fishing together, so we kinda learned side by side. And it took me… It probably took me 10 years to learn what somebody learns in 2 1/2 days in a fishing school these days. So it was a long process, but I’ve always loved to fish since I was very little and I just thought fly fishing looked cool.

TR: My father didn’t fly fish. I didn’t have any relatives that fly fished. And I just started out on bluegills and small bass, and then when I was old enough to drive and I could get to trout streams, I did a lot of trout fishing, the Catskills and Upstate New York and Pennsylvania. I didn’t go out… I didn’t fish the western United States until mid to late 1970s. And since then… Being at Orvis, I’ve been lucky enough to… Although I don’t… People think I’ve traveled all around the world and that I’ve fished everywhere. That’s really not true. I’ve fished in a few relatively exotic places, but to be honest with you, I love fishing right here in the United States. There is so… Between salt water and… Which is one of my big passions, and fresh water, there’s so much interesting fishing here. I do wanna go to Cuba badly ’cause I love the bonefish, tarpon and a permit, and Orvis has got a new trip to Cuba that we just announced. So I’m hoping that I get to go to Cuba soon.

DG: Well, they have to put you on that trip because you’re always promoting… You’re a big voice for tenkara… For fly fishing at Orvis. You’re a big voice for Orvis. You held a podcast and everything. I’m sure there’ll be a delightful program to have you go to Cuba and promote that. I can’t imagine Orvis is not gonna send you.

TR: Why don’t you talk to them? Why don’t you talk to them about that, Daniel? Will you put in a word for me?

DG: Well, I’m sure they’re listening to this podcast.

TR: No. They don’t even listen to my podcast, Daniel.

DG: Oh, we gotta change that. Yeah, I’ll…

TR: Nobody.

DG: I’ll make sure to talk to the big guys there. That’s gotta be a fun trip, but it’s… But that’s like… What you just mentioned about loving fishing here in the United States, one of the things that really struck me when I first fished with you out there in Vermont near the Orvis headquarter was just how excited you were Tom, catching a 6-inch and an 8-inch brook trout. And the first thing that I remember thinking to myself when you caught a small brook trout and it was a beautiful little fish, and you were excited. And I thought to myself, I was like “This guy, he’s fished for all kinds of fish. He has caught huge fish in all kinds of places.” Maybe I got the wrong image, but I know you’ve been to some pretty cool places, but you were still excited as a child to catch a small brook trout in your own home backyard. And to me, that always… It stayed with me. It’s like this is the kind of attitude I always wanna have in my fly fishing. It’s… I always wanna feel like a child when I catch fish that I’ve caught dozens of times before or hundreds of times. And so I wanted to tell you that, that it’s been inspiring to watch you be as excited for a small fish as you… I hope as excited for a small fish as you are for any of the bigger fish ’cause if you get more excited than that, I’m afraid to be close to you, Tom.

TR: No, I get excited about all fish, but I don’t get wigged out over a really big fish. I get just as excited but… Well, a fish is a fish. Somebody once told me that fly fishing is… Or fishing is great ’cause it allows us to pretend we’re 12 years old again, and I’ve always subscribed to that philosophy.

DG: Yup. And I remember somebody earlier on when we were starting to introduce Tenkara here and somebody came online, a little bit of a troll, trying to dismiss tenkara as a fishing for kids, and luckily one of the… Somebody from Japan actually kind of responded right away saying that he actually takes that as a big compliment, fishing for kids because when you’ve…

TR: Yeah.

DG: When you’re fishing as a kid, it’s like you’re finding this joy back in your life. And you know, what came… What somebody tried to come across as an insult was actually a big compliment to the Japanese person, and I love that. Yeah.

TR: Yeah, that’s great.

DG: So you’ve fished in Pennsylvania and of course now you live in Vermont, and we have… Did you grow up mostly fishing out there in New England like northeastern part of the country?

TR: Yeah, Upstate New York and Vermont ’cause I’ve lived in Vermont for 40 years. The Vermont fishing is… It’s good. We have some very large fish in the Batten Kill that are very challenging. We have lots of good, as you’ve seen, wild mountain streams with wild trout in them. But I do love the technical trout fishing where you’re trying to match the hatch and play games with a big fussy fish. So I do like to go other places for my fishing. And of course, I love salt water. There’s none of that in Vermont except in a pickle jar. So I travel a fair amount, but it’s mostly on my own. It’s not big, fancy trips, usually with friends and usually not to a fancy lodge or anything. I prefer to keep the fishing intense and the rest of it very simple.

DG: I noticed that. And I think it’s kind of a true… And a lot of times, I think it’s true of a lot of the folks at Orvis in general and maybe that’s another thing where the image doesn’t really match the reality. Sometimes people might think, “Oh, yeah, those guys must be staying in fancy lodges, maybe they don’t fish that much.” And what I’ve noticed from the beginning is, man, people there, everybody that works at Orvis loves fishing. And you guys just like, “You’re just a core fisherman that just love fishing hard and keeping it simple,” to borrow your words. I think that’s a good way to put it, but it’s just really a lot of good soul fishing, I’ve noticed there at Orvis.

TR: Yeah. There’s a bunch of fishing sickos here and we make no excuses for it.

DG: Yeah. Well, still…

TR: You and I both know you’re never gonna get rich in the fishing business, and you’re never gonna make enough money to stay in one of those lodges. So unless you get a free invitation, you’re not going anyway, right?

DG: Exactly. So let’s be content with what we can do, right?

TR: Yeah. As long as I’ve got a rod in my hand, I’m happy regardless of what I’m doing. We went pike fishing yesterday, and it was pretty slow but the whole department went. But everyone caught pike. Everyone caught a big pike on a fly rod and so it was fun.

DG: Nice. And for those who always wondered if you can catch pike on Tenkara, just look up tenkara pike on Google and you’ll find some images, but I’m assuming you didn’t take a tenkara rod yesterday, did you?

TR: No. I took a 9-weight. We were fishing with a pretty big fly, you would not even… You could… There’s no way you could get these flies on that tenkara rod. You’d just break… You would break the rod in half, Daniel.

DG: Yeah. The flies would have been the problem, not the fish. Maybe that’s a good episode for the future. I have to bring in the people that have caught pike on tenkara and just talk to them about…

TR: Yeah. You have to get Chris Hunt in there. You’re right about that.

DG: Yeah, that’s a good point. I think he’ll be one of the next people. But let’s talk a little bit about tenkara, start talking about that topic why some listeners are tuning in to this episode. I should mention that I’ve followed your work since I started fly fishing. That’s… I think there’s a lot of people in the United States, in a lot of different parts of the world actually, because I think I first read one of your books when I was still in Brazil self-teaching how to fly fish. And a lot of people are all learning how to fly fish because of what you’ve written, maybe some of the videos that you’ve produced as well. And one of the things that I thought early on when I discovered tenkara was that, “Man, I bet Tom Rosenbauer is really gonna enjoy learning about tenkara one day.” But I didn’t introduce tenkara to you personally. I think you’ve heard about it through some other people. Can you tell us how you first learned about tenkara and what kinda got you to maybe first try it?

TR: Yeah. I had heard about it for years because one of our dealers in… Our dealer in Japan, our distributor in Japan, TIEMCO, we’ve known them for quite a while. And so I was aware of tenkara but had never done it until I went to visit Colby and Brian Trow in… At Mossy Creek in Virginia. And we went for trout fishing. The stream’s very similar to what we have here. Their fish are a little bigger I think. And Colby was fishing it all day long, and I kinda said, “Nah, I’ll pass.” And I watched Colby getting these drag-free floats forever down to pocket. Oh, I mean, just the fly just kept floating drag free. And I… At one point, I finally said, “Give me that rod. I gotta try that.” And it was fun. I have to admit that tenkara is not my preferred way to fish, but there are two places here at home where I really like it. I love taking my 11-year-old son… I think he started it when he was 8 or 9, to a local dock on a lake and catching sunfish with a tenkara rod ’cause he doesn’t have to worry about a reel and a line. He can just make a cast.

TR: And he’s learning how to really how to fly cast ’cause the motions are the same. People think it’s just dapping when it’s really not. And he doesn’t have to worry about all the other stuff. He catches fish, and he’d reach them up on the dock, and we have a lot of laughs. So he can see the fish take the little poppers. And then the other place I really like is a lot of our mountain streams here are small but they’re quite open because they have wide floodplains, big boulders, and the foliage grows down to the edge of the water but you still have plenty of room in front of you and behind you. And I find tenkara would be perfect in there or mostly fishing dry flies, short casts. And the whole game is to get a drag-free float. The fish aren’t very picky. They eat anything that looks remotely edible. And so getting a drag-free float is the most important thing, and tenkara works beautifully for that.

DG: Perfect. Yeah. And it’s… Well, I think it’s understandable that tenkara might not be your preferred method of fly fishing ’cause you have mastery of the fly rod and reel, and that’s, I think, probably a little bit hard to abandon the reel for every condition. But I do feel very honored that somebody like you does take tenkara out once in a while, and that’s amazing.

TR: Oh yeah, absolutely. It’s just a fun switch. It’s a fun change.

DG: Yeah. I was gonna ask, do you fish with tenkara differently than when you use a rod and reel? Does your fly fishing change at all? Do you do things differently or is it pretty much the same, just with a different rod?

TR: It’s pretty much the same. I use basically the same flies ’cause I know they’re gonna work on these small streams, and I can see them. And it’s pretty much straight upstream. But I do want to try some more subsurface techniques with… That you and I just talked about. I do wanna try some of those techniques that you have on your website, on the videos because I’ve really limited myself to just using a dry fly. And I remember when you were here fishing with us, you did really well. You caught the biggest fish on the tenkara rod. And you were fishing a kind of a… I don’t know, half-dry, half-wet fly, and you fished it both ways, as I remember. And I think you caught that really nice fish when the fly was sunk, and you were manipulating it.

DG: Yeah. And it’s… And for our listeners too, Tom and I were just doing a podcast episode for his podcast, The Orvis Guide to Fly Fishing podcast, which you can find in iTunes. And we talked about some of the techniques in tenkara. There’s an episode that I’ve done in the past for this podcast, and we have a video about the five main techniques used in tenkara like the dead drift, pulsing and that kinda thing, and also sinking of the fly without using weights. So just to kinda let our listeners kinda know. And it’s… Yeah, and the idea… Using a Tenkara fly that’s not particularly a dry nor a nymph… It kinda works either way. And just using one that… Kinda like a soft tack or wet fly primarily subsurface. But I think one of the cool things about those, as you mentioned, I was fishing as a dry and sometimes subsurface.

DG: One of the cool things about using this kind of fly that is not specifically a dry or a nymph is that you can fish it pretty much anywhere you want, any water column just by changing the technique. So yeah, I definitely recommend you give it a try some time.

TR: I will and the way those tenkara flies are tied with the soft hackle, kind of reversed or cupped forward over the eye, that must give them a lot of action in the water, and it probably helps them sink too.

DG: Yeah. So it does… Yeah. It does do a few things. The action for sure is a big one, and we could have talked about that in your episode, but it’s… Yeah, when you post the fly, the fly opens and closes. It’s got this nice motion. But the other thing that it does too, the reverse hackle, it kinda anchors the fly in the water. So if you have a fly that’s really streamlined and you try to pose it, a lot of times you’ll jump right out of the water. And with the reverse hackle, it kinda stays subsurface a little bit more, so that’s…

TR: Oh, yeah, yeah. Ah, I never thought of that. Yup, interesting.

DG: We’ll do an episode four a few months from now for your podcast.

TR: Okay, alright. But I have to go out and try that first.

DG: Yeah. So you use mostly dry flies with your rod and do you do… I don’t know if you still do a lot of mending with your tenkara rod or do you keep the line kinda off the water and less mending with… When you fish with tenkara rod?

TR: Oh, I hate mending. I hate mending with the normal fly line. I try to avoid mends at all cost. I feel that the best way to ruin a drift of a fly and the spookfish is to mend. So about the only time I mend with a regular rod is when I’m fishing an indicator with a nymph in fast water, but no, I don’t mend at all with tenkara. I just keep the line off the water the whole time.

DG: Oh, okay, good. Yeah.

TR: That’s the advantage. To me, that’s the big advantage of it. I don’t wanna have to mend.

DG: Yeah. I agree completely. And that’s kind of… That’s probably a load of question, but it’s like I wanna make sure that Tom is not mending. And it’s been a little while since you and I have fished together, but I couldn’t remember. I didn’t think you were mending. I think your technique is really, really good actually for tenkara so I just wanted to refresh my memory there. Do you ever do different rigs with your tenkara rod like dry droppers or using weights and that kind of thing?

TR: I haven’t yet. I might experiment with it.

DG: Yeah, okay. So mostly dry flies like a indicator or?

TR: Yeah. But with bluegills, I’ve some… If they won’t come up to a little popper, I’ll sometimes put a little nymph on so that if I can see the fish, but no, I’ve been pretty dry fly purist with the tenkara rod.

DG: Well and actually just kind of struck me before we called each other here today that I have been working with Tenkara USA, we have been working with Orvis for almost four years already. It’s amazing how fast time is going by. I had to look up our first press release that we put out and it was July 2012 when you guys really first started offering tenkara to your customers. It’s yeah. For some reason, I had 2 1/2 years in mind or something. It’s amazing. It’s been four.

TR: And your rod is the only rod that we don’t either make here in our rod shop or build to our strict specifications. That’s the only rod that we sell.

DG: I do feel very proud of that, that in four years, I guess we must be doing something right today. You guys are not making your own tenkara rods and just continue to work with us. I appreciate that. But what can you tell us about, in terms of Orvis wanting to work with Tenkara USA and also in broader terms, wanting to offer tenkara to your customers? Why did Orvis decide to embrace this method of fishing, you think?

TR: Well, duh! We’re in business to make money, Daniel. I was down in Mossy Creek and those boys sold 16 tenkara rods in an afternoon. And I came back and said, “Hey guys, we’re missing something here and Daniel makes a great rod. He’s a great guy. Lets get tenkara rods in there and see how they do.” It’s a fun way to fish. That means other than making money, that our philosophy really is we want our customers to have fun catching fish. We don’t want it to be horribly expensive for them and tenkara rods are inexpensive. It’s a great way of getting into fly fishing. So all the signs pointed to the fact that we should do it. Nothing very complicated about it.

DG: Yeah. That’s pretty simple decision making, I guess. I was wondering too because early on, you might have, or maybe you didn’t see too much of it, but it’s… Of course, early on when we were starting to introduce tenkara here, there was all kinds of discussions online saying, “Yeah, tenkara is fly fishing, tenkara is not fly fishing, blah, blah, blah.” I saw all kinds of weird conversations, but it was really a big milestone to have Orvis, which has been in business for just about 160 years now, considered one of the most traditional fly fishing companies in the country, if not the world, coming out and being like, “Yeah, we wanna offer tenkara.” And it’s, I think, besides, of course, the financial decision, to us at least from the community and from Tenkara USA, we saw that as a big validation of the method. And there’s a little bit more to it at least in our heads. Do you guys ever talk about like, “Is tenkara fly fishing, is it not, or did it just not matter at all, you think?”

TR: We don’t care. Our philosophy is, “If you do it with a fly and you’re having fun, then it’s fly fishing.” Period. End of story. I don’t care if you fish blow bugs or squirmy worms or shaky worms or whatever. If you got a fly on the end and you’re casting it through the air and a fish eats it, you’re fly fishing. Who cares? Yeah, it doesn’t matter to us. We don’t need to get involved. If our customers are interested in tenkara, and obviously they are, then we’re going to both sell them the equipment and give them the necessary… Help them develop their skills and have fun with it.

DG: Well, and that’s probably part of the big reason that I wanted to work with you guys. The attitude was very much like, “We’re in this for the joy of fishing. It’s not for the joy of fly fishing. It’s not really the hardline that maybe a lot of people might take or even companies once in a while take of, just the purest or not and that kind of thing.” It’s just like we should all be fly fishing ’cause we get out and we get to see how the waters are doing and… There’s just something to be said about getting more people in fly fishing as well.

TR: Yeah, right. Three generations of the family that owns Orvis… Actually four generations now, with Simon’s daughter, Pippa, and her video. They all fly fish and they all love it and it’s their life. And although we sometimes… They have to make some hard nosed business decisions, we always think of… We always think of customer first, and we think of what we would want as an angler, as a fly fisher, what we would want to happen. So it’s just a… It’s good business, but it’s also the corporate philosophy that we have. It comes from the top down.

DG: And have you guys been hearing much from your customers? I’ve been very honored to as well to be part of a couple of episodes of your podcast. It’s gonna be three pretty soon here. Have many of your customers been in contact, sharing any feedback about tenkara and how you guys are sharing it and promoting or anything in particular that you’ve been noticing?

TR: Well, the one thing I’ve been noticing, Daniel, is… And actually one of the reasons I did the podcast with you is that tenkara is a very heavily used search term on our website, and we analyze those things. And obviously… I think that… When I go and do… I do my presentation on small stream fly fishing at clubs or TU chapters or shows or whatever, and I talk about tenkara in the small stream fly fishing lecture. I ask people if they know what tenkara is. And sometimes, half the people in the room don’t know what it is. So I think that there are still a lot of people, there’s still an untapped market out there for tenkara. I think that there’s a lot of people that are obviously curious about it cause they’re searching the term on our website. And so I think that there’s still unfulfilled demand for knowledge about tenkara.

DG: Oh yeah, absolutely. And that’s only like we’ve… To a large extent, I almost feel like we’ve done a decent job of introducing people that are already fly fishermen into tenkara, but one of the big opportunities I think with tenkara is getting a very large number of people that have never touched a fly rod to fly fish because of it. And we have been fairly successful at that but I think that’s still almost like an unlimited number, just getting more people to realize that fly fishing doesn’t have to be complicated. So if you’re getting those hands raised, half of the room kind of have heard of tenkara and that’s like the fly fishing audience primarily, just imagine if you’re talking to a room of people that have never fly fished before. That’s a… Those are even more interesting numbers I think. Yeah.

TR: It’s a lot tougher sell. It’s a lot tougher sell, but…

DG: Yes, definitely. But at the same time, I’m noticing people are… Everybody wants to do stuff outside and they’re just looking for that excuse whether it’s hiking whether it’s skiing whether it’s mountain climbing or you name it. There’s an activity there for almost everybody. Of course, some people just seem to video games and they don’t wanna step out but it’s… I like to think that majority of people are just looking for that one activity that you wanna go and partake outside and…

TR: That’s a good point, Daniel. And anecdotally, I know, when talking to some customers, when I’ve been in stores, a lot of young cyclists or mountain bikers or backpackers are really interested in tenkara rod because it’s so simple, it packs down so small, and you need that little tiny rod too with a handful of flies, and a spool of tippet, and that’s all you need. And that’s really intriguing to them because it’s so lightweight and so packable.

DG: Yeah, absolutely. There’s actually a really cool website talking about biking in particular called The Path Less Pedaled, and it’s a blog where this couple, they’re just biking all over the place and a lot of times promoting bike tourism, and they just started something. I think it’s called… What they call it? Like rods and pedals or something. It’s a little bit of a campaign where they’re just taking their fly rods… Their tenkara rods and their fly rods. They use both everywhere because if you’re biking around a lot, there’s a good chance you’re gonna be coming across some good stream here or there, and you might as well have a tenkara rod with you. So it’s…

TR: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

DG: Yeah. I think that’s just the way a lot of people are looking at activities nowadays, just going out.

TR: Yeah. If I were doing the mountain biking or backpacking thing, I would absolutely take a tenkara rod. I don’t because there’s too much time screwing around with other stuff and not enough fishing time in those activities, but…

DG: Well, when you go mushroom hunting, when the weather warms out there, I’m sure you’re gonna take one, right?

TR: Yeah, I could… Yeah, I could. I never thought of that. There’s a couple of little brook trout streams where I do some of my mushroom hunting. I should do that Daniel. Good idea.

DG: Yeah. Honestly, that’s how I’ve been fishing. At least in the last couple of years, most of my fly fishing is just as a regular activity, not taking people out and teaching, but just to fish. My wife and I, we… One of our biggest excuses to go outside is to go mushroom hunting ’cause we kind of lose ourselves in the forest, and we’re just…

TR: Yeah. Oh, it’s great.

DG: Oh, it’s just a beautiful activity where we lose ourselves. We’re just like in a different world it seems like, but we always have a tenkara rod, and we’re sure enough, we always cross a stream and now you always have to cast at least a few times to see what happens. It’s…

TR: Yeah, that’s great. That’s great.

DG: But yeah. So one time, you and I will have to do some mushroom hunting together. You have to come out to Colorado and partake in our porcini hunting in July and August.

TR: Oh, I would like to ’cause we don’t… We don’t get many king boletes here, so I would like to do that sometime. Actually, I’m gonna be out there in August. Maybe we should do that.

DG: Oh, yeah. And definitely let me know when you’re gonna be here ’cause I’ll take you to a couple of spots. It’s a blast.

TR: We’re gonna be in Avon for a week in August.

DG: Oh, perfect. Yeah, that’s great.

TR: Maybe we can meet somewhere.

DG: Well, Tom, I don’t wanna take too much more of your time. I just wanted to kind of learn a little bit more about your experience with tenkara and kind of introduce you to our listeners, a lot of whom are new to fly fishing as well I’ve be noticing. So I appreciate you making the time to talk to me for the Tenkara Cast, and I’ll make sure to put a link to The Orvis Guide to Fly Fishing Podcast that you put out much more consistently than I do. It’s a good podcast for people to listen to, and hopefully, I’ll see you here in Colorado in August sometime.

TR: Alright. Well, I’m really a novice in tenkara, so I hope I gave you some interesting information, but I really… Still learning, still learning a lot.

DG: We all are. We all are. Well, thank you so much.

TR: Yeah, we all are.

DG: Thanks so much for your time, Tom. And to our listeners until next time on the Tenkara Cast. Thanks for tuning in this time and for following us on Facebook. And if you want more information and if you wanna find the links, you can go to and look up this episode for some links that I’ll put out there.

DG: And as always, I want to thank my friend Nick Ogawa, also known as Takenobu, for letting us use his music, which we use in the introduction of every episode of The Tenkara Cast. Nick Takenobu just released a new album called Reversal, and you can find that at This song is called Che and I wanna say that I really, really enjoy having his music on my iPhone here. When I travel, tremendous music as always. So take a listen and go check out his album.

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